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Post by Alexandre LeChevalier on Aug 11, 2018 23:08:49 GMT
"Alexandre LeChevalier," he said, extending his hand. "And my thanks. I must say, I'm pleasantly surprised you approve, given the offer to officiate. Nice to see some approve of civility, in this age where crowds gather to watch drunkards fight. But that's what this whole war has been for, and this whole night is to celebrate. To spread a sense of civilization and ethics." Though normally taciturn, the drinks had made him rather talkative, and he spoke with a sense of genuine optimism.
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Xaos
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Post by Xaos on Aug 28, 2018 1:05:32 GMT
"It was a test of character, Monsieur LeChevalier, one which you passed handily and your foe failed, though my friend may think the contrary," Cornutus chuckled, Alexandre looked about and saw Cornutus' friend walking away by Rodriguez's side, "But I say it's a good sign for tomorrow to see such restraint and dedication to worthy ideals among the men of today. I have been away from Mother Europa's shores for a long time, and much has transpired in my absence. Would Monsieur be willing to let me bide with you tonight, and indulge my many questions?"
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Post by Alexandre LeChevalier on Aug 28, 2018 1:50:55 GMT
For a moment, Alexandre considered the request. His dress and speech seemed to confirm that he had been away for some time, yet he was also clearly a man of wealth. Had he been away on some legitimate venture, he would no doubt have other contacts or family. But then, perhaps his family was high born, and had either fled or been executed in the revolution. And besides, it was a time of celebration and new beginnings. Perhaps the alcohol, though fading, was pushing caution to the side, but what kind of a man would he be to leave this gentleman without hospitality?
"Of course, good sir. Indeed, if it's questions on Mother Europa at large, you have the good fortune of finding a host who has traveled much of her soil under our new First Consul. Truth be told, as much as I've enjoyed these revels, I'd had my fill and would quite enjoy a quieter scene. I know a café along the way. Or would you prefer to retire now?"
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Xaos
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Post by Xaos on Sept 9, 2018 1:14:23 GMT
Much of the night's remainder passed in conversation between the two men, first at the cafe then on foot. The topics began with events in recent history, the sort of questions that were unsurprising for someone who had been gone from the continent for an extended period. But as the conversation progressed, it shifted more into the abstract; the ideals of the Enlightenment and of Stoicism. As this line of discussion developed, Alexandre couldn't help but suspect that Cornutus might be using some subtle variation of Socratic Method to draw out telling information about his personal convictions. There was certainly more to suggest that suspicion when the conversation inevitably blended its previous two arenas by delving into political philosophy. Finally, late into the night, Cornutus proposed a thought experiment that surprised LeChevalier by its peculiarity.
"Imagine a world in which some men are immortal but others are not," Cornutus said, "The immortals may make of mortals other immortals but can by necessity never do so to the majority of men. In addition, the immortals possess capabilities beyond those simply granted by centuries to hone one's mind and body. How could equality be achieved in such a world?"
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Post by Alexandre LeChevalier on Sept 10, 2018 12:56:17 GMT
Alexandre took a long sip from the watered wine he and his guest were drinking- though he noted his guest hadn't touched his- while he considered the question. He then let out a sigh, and answered, "In truth, friend, I've wondered the same thing. Not with the demigods complicating the matter, but whether we can achieve some semblance of equality. Men aren't equally capable, after all. Some are strong, while others are crippled. Some intelligent, some fools. If that's the equality you seek, then it will never be had. The equality we strived for as we marched across the continent wasn't one of ability, though, but of... dignity, I suppose? If all men can reason, and reason leads to virtue, then all men can be equal in that they can all be virtuous. And that surely is the goal of a civilized society, no?
"The answer to your question, then, is yes, it could. It would just depend on the character of these demigods. If they act as shepherds, guiding their mortal flock to reason and virtue, then there could be equality. And if they act as tyrants, they would naturally delay this, but if the majority are mortal, then the majority could surely overthrow them, no? Our own king seemed like a demigod in many ways, perhaps not immortal, but certainly influential beyond imagining. And even so, he was toppled by the masses. He used his powers selfishly, and it ended as it must for such rulers, and as it will for the others as progress marches on.
"Some worry Napoleon will become a new king. They fear this, but having absolute rulers isn't necessarily doomed to ruin us all. As Cicero said, we need a mixture of democracy, aristocracy, and monarchy. I suspect that if he becomes a king, he will be the good sort that fits into this balance, and shepherds his people to reason and virtue, even when they resist. If the immortals in your scenario act this way, then surely equality would be achieved. Even if they didn't, society would evolve around them, and eventually those they made immortal would outnumber them and lead the mortal majority to enlightenment.
"It's not a matter of if, but when. And whether the immortals, by their character, would slow or speed that progress. But regardless of what they do, the answer would eventually be yes."
Alexandre took another long sip from the wine, watching Cornutus and expecting a retort. He had been flimsy with his definition of 'equality', after all, and from their conversations thus far Cornutus seemed the sort to play devil's advocate just to fully explore an idea. From his facial expression, though, Alexandre was surprised to see the other man seemed to be treating this much less lightly than the other philosophical ideas they had discussed. Had his answer hit a nerve? Offended in some way? Or was this simply an idea he hadn't heard that he was considering for the first time? It seemed unlikely, based on how well-read he was elsewhere. Regardless, the change meant Alexandre found himself eagerly awaiting his response.
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Xaos
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Post by Xaos on Sept 16, 2018 0:11:02 GMT
Something entered Cornutus' eyes as Alexandre spoke, a cast which perhaps spoke of nostalgia for some lost or tarnished hope of the past. It took the other man a moment to respond, and LeChevalier wasn't sure if his pause in responding came from considering the words or some need to compose himself.
"I have heard words such as yours before, but it has been so long since I heard them from someone I could be sure did not speak from misguided attachment to old failures," Cornutus finally said, his voice somehow solemn and refreshed at the same time, "And yet to say this I must first have seen the failures I spoke of come to pass. For if only the foes of virtue were so bold as to and affix that title themselves and make neat battle lines, yet I have seen men of virtue differ fatally and I have seen barbarians who call their bloodshed virtue."
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Post by Alexandre LeChevalier on Sept 17, 2018 13:13:09 GMT
"True enough, few think themselves the villain. But often enough, it is simple enough to get a man to reveal his true nature. Like our friend at the start of this night, who was more than willing to shed blood over wounded pride. Now, I may sound naïve in this. After all, I've wandered the continent as a soldier, and I imagine it's easier to see men's true natures in the heat of the battlefield than in professions. While the 'foes of virtue' may not announce themselves thus, with provocation they will reveal themselves for what they are- sometimes an offer of a duel is enough, sometimes it takes the threat of death during the violence of war.
"Perhaps some sort of test would be required of the immortals in your scenario, or a test for the mortals before they are granted immortality, with some pressure to reveal true character. More likely, the immortals would be able to read such a thing, even without their additional gifts. I've always found myself able to read a man with relative ease, and I'm sure with centuries to hone the skill the immortals would achieve remarkable accuracy."
Taking a slow drain, LeChevalier shifted the discussion. Cornutus had been very guarded about his own past- perhaps that's why he was hesitant to drink the wine- but had let a detail slip that piqued Alexandre's curiosity. "But you said you had seen these 'old failures' firsthand. What did you mean by that? Is that, perhaps, why you left Europe?"
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Xaos
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Post by Xaos on Sept 30, 2018 2:13:05 GMT
Cornutus chuckled, but there was no mirth in it, much of the gregariousness that he had displayed throughout the night thus far had faded.
"No, I left the continent for far less lofty reasons than that. And the failures which haunt me are the failings of my family; a moment of great hope for us that turned sour long before my birth but that everyone of my lineage feels the weight of to this night. It is easy for my brethren to simply become cynical, and many have over the generations, but I think I've hitherto this night failed to realize how much despair I have been concealing 'neath hopefulness. It it almost painful to see men of today seeking just and noble goals; the actuality of what I had hoped for proves somewhat perturbing when it comes to fruition. Perhaps that why it is called a dream by my kin, to us recapturing it cannot survive the waking."
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Post by Alexandre LeChevalier on Oct 1, 2018 10:28:51 GMT
Alexandre gave a shrug, and replied, "I think it vital that the men of today are seeking a more noble future, and if you'll forgive my boldness, I suggest you join in the effort. You say you are surprised to find despair in yourself, but I would be surprised not to find it if you cling to the failures of a distant ancestor. The men of the Stoa teach to focus on that which is under your control, of which both the past and the actions of others do not fall. You are clearly well versed in the philosophy, and in agreement with it, so why not heed its lessons?
"The past offers a framework for future action, and little else. Allowing it to haunt you and cripple you into inaction forces it to remain a dream, and nothing more. Perhaps the just and noble goals of the men of today aren't building the same thing as this dream, but dreams have a way of being greater than can ever be achieved by mortals. Many cling to a romanticized past that never existed. Are you certain this great hope hasn't been distorted to greater heights over the generations, just to make the fall all the more bitter? Look to whatever lesson this failure can teach, but use it to move forward, rather than dwelling on the failure. Surely that is what the ancestors who failed would rather see done, no?"
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Xaos
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Post by Xaos on Oct 8, 2018 1:44:50 GMT
Cornutus turned to Alexandre, and like clouds drifting away to reveal the moon, a smile returned to strange traveler's face.
"Youth practices the wisdom that age declaims," Cornutus chuckled, the phrasing made it sound to Alexandre like the other man was quoting some storied maxim, yet it was not one he recognized. "In days of old," Cornutus continued, "The logic of Aristotle was contemptuous of investigation with the senses, but as the men of today seek confirmation of reason in observation, I would give a demonstration before speaking further."
Taking his still-filled wine glass, Cornutus balanced it on a single finger pressed upward against the center of its base. His hand then proceeded, almost instantly, to withdraw itself. Then, in a motion so quick that LeChevalier didn't see it until it was done, Cornutus' other hand had taken the exact position abandoned by its mate. Not a drop of wine had spilled and there was no more than a centimeter of difference with the glass' original position.
"No, no, that won't do," Cornutus mumbled, "You'll be apt to think me but a well-honed prestidigitator." Handing the glass to Alexandre, Cornutus took a few steps about and looked for bystanders. Satisfied of some reasonable privacy in the area where the gentlemen had been conversing, he walked up to a dimly lit street-lamp nearby. Seizing the lamp confidently, Cornutus began to pull on it like a potter with clay and, to LeChevalier's great surprise, the lamp post responded in kind. In a few moments time, he had bent the lamp-head around through a loop and now the post stood in it original straightness, except for a knot twisted up in its center.
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Post by Alexandre LeChevalier on Oct 9, 2018 8:44:23 GMT
Alexandre blinked hard twice, staring with a stone face while he tried to understand what had just happened. After a long moment staring in silence, he put the pieces together. "I thought your question on immortals with strange powers was an odd one, but stranger thought experiments exist. You are one such immortal, and that is one such power?" Despite being a statement, and Alexandre trying to shape it as such and appear as unfazed as possible, his voice slipped and betrayed his confusion and alarm at what had just happened. He had thought he understood the world, and his life's actions in war to spread his ideals stemmed from him knowing how the world worked and being sure that such ideals would improve it. With such a simple action, Cornutus had shaken that confidence to the core.
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Xaos
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Post by Xaos on Nov 5, 2018 1:33:59 GMT
"Keep your voice low, my new friend," Cornutus said, smiling at Alexandre but glancing side to side, "It is not without reason that even men of your high learning are unaware of my kind. I am indeed what you say, and what I spoke of, as is my friend whom you met earlier. I have endured for many of mankind's generations, and there are even those of my ilk older than myself by far. The ennui in my words took many lifetimes to grow; which is why it impresses me so that one as yourself, who has only lived for a quarter-century or so, could lift it so easily with his words."
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Post by Strigus on Nov 5, 2018 12:07:48 GMT
"Perhaps it's not in spite of my youth, but because of it. Even among us mortals, look at how adults fall into routine, while children remain excited by everything. They seem instinctively in touch with the beauty of our world, and we can forget about this gift when we become too focused on trivial external concerns. I admit, having a command can sometimes tie me down and drain me of my appreciation for the wonders of this life. I'm sure generations of time spent being tied down in such a way would be indescribably draining.
"But are you tied down? You are a demigod. You live forever, you have powers most could only dream of, and your very existence is hidden. Surely those would free you of the drudgery and concerns that I describe. Perhaps your issue is the opposite; rather than being chained down by a command, you lack purpose. Isolating yourself from the world certainly wouldn't help in that regard. If you feel rejuvenated just from talking with me, why not reveal yourself at large? Why keep your kind's existence secret?"
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Xaos
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Post by Xaos on Nov 6, 2018 2:36:25 GMT
Completing his brief stroll back from the lamppost, Cornutus replied, being sure to keep his voice cautiously low, "My Kindred have not always hidden from man. I spoke to you before of old failures; I meant several things by this but for the most, I spoke of Carthage. Now, mind, I was not about in those nights, but it said my Clansmen lived in peace and equality with mortal men in that ancient city. However, it did not last, and the immortals who led Rome, less interested in virtue and more interested in power, brought Carthage low in the final Punic War. Though my Kindred do not age or fear disease and can only be driven into hibernation by lack of nourishment, we can be destroyed through violence; though such a task is much more difficult than killing a mortal man. It was not after Carthage that we went into hiding, however."
"To a man of your age the story should be familiar, albeit in a different iteration. The disaster was different than the famine that spawned your Revolution, but disaster led to revolt all the same. In the 15th century, the Church had grown aware of another Clan of my Kindred controlling many of their bishops from the shadows of the Vatican's halls. This, my young friend, was the true cause of the Inquisition, to find them and burn them out. But the Inquisition did not rest at simply purging the Church's ranks; they would not stop until all my Kindred were reduced to ash. The elders, for status in my kind is based more in age than in birthright, sent their juniors to die fighting the Inquisition so that they might survive."
"The revolution amongst my kind that followed the waning of the Inquisition's pyres pitted the surviving youth against the elders. It raged until it became obvious to all (ah well, almost all at the least) that it could not continue. A convention was called in the English town of Thorns and peace was made. Most joined in the new order, which I suppose is not unlike your own Bonapartisme in fact, though we still have a Directory rather than an Emperor, while some who revolted would not join but agreed to lay down arms; perhaps they are like the Girondins. Some of the Asiatic Clans did not join either; these were mostly from Araby, Egypt, Hindustan and Asia Minor, along with the Venetians, who are a story unto themselves."
"At Thorns it was agreed that all Kindred would uphold a Masquerade: a separation and hiding from mankind so that the horrors of the Inquisition and Anarch Revolt need never occur again. But, as you yourself know, there are always those thirsty for violence who will defy peace. And my kind have our own Jacobins, who believe the path to the future can only be paved with bones and blood. They sacked Thorns during the Convention, and have been in rebellion ever since; though most of these have been forced to flee to Scandinavia, Russia and the New World by now."
"This I suppose, gives you some notion as to why we are hidden. But there is one more matter that makes our Masquerade important: our physical nature. We can take no sustenance from mortal food, only mortal blood. It is possible, even easy, to drink only so much that the greatest harm to the donor is but a touch of dizziness the next morn. And, speaking of morning, our kind cannot bear the touch of the sun. Further we cannot reproduce in the manner of humans, animals or even plants...we must induct mortals into our immortal race."
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Post by Alexandre LeChevalier on Nov 6, 2018 4:46:31 GMT
Alexandre nodded. "And that, I suppose, is where I come in. My words may have affected you, but what is it you intend? Restoration of Carthage? Bringing the rebels in line? In either case, it is one thing to, in private conversation, restore faith to an open-minded man who always truly believed the words spoken in his heart, even if recent events made him jaded. Quite another to change minds to a new way of thinking, especially when the minds are already closed, or have never believed the words spoken before, or believe the speaker has a motive and isn't truly speaking from his heart. All three would be against me, which is no doubt why progress, if any has been made at all, has been so slow by your demigods before me. So if I read your intent correctly, I doubt I could produce any change."
By this point the wine had been finished and, noting Cornutus' words on mortal food, Alexandre questioning motioned to take the wine before his guest. This had shaped up to be a much stranger night than he anticipated, and he could use a drink.
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